November 7, 2012

Fraud in Paranormal – Jenny Stewart

⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ Jenny Stewart is a nationally recognized paranormal podcaster, paranormal investigator, ghost box expert, and another peer within our community of paranormal who has personal experience being the target & victim of fraud within paranormal. Listen as Jenny explains how Amy Morrison Rodriguez, the leader & founder of New England G.H.O.S.T., a NEW ENGLAND based paranormal investigation organization created, and portrayed themselves as, numerous fake identities – both in real life and on popular social networking sites – as a means to win the confidence of potential new members, and established paranormal peer groups, alike.
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Fraud in Paranormal
Fraud in Paranormal - Jenny Stewart
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Show Notes

MGH Podcast Image 3000x3000
Fraud in Paranormal
Fraud in Paranormal - Jenny Stewart

In this episode of our paranormal fraud series we present special guest and seasoned Radio Show Hostess, Jenny Stewart of the Paranormal Research and Resource Society.  Jen has extensive experience with online social networking, radio show programming, paranormal investigations, and has mingled with some of paranormal reality’s best and brightest.  She makes her appearance during this show to share her personal knowledge and experience with the founder of New England G.H.O.S.T., a New England based paranormal investigation organization;  a team run by Amy Morrison Rodriguez, an individual with an extensive criminal history and who currently (as of the initial recording of this show) has an active warrant for her arrest in the state of Ohio.

Jenny will reiterate what’s been attested to multiple times in our past ‘Fraud in Paranormal’ episodes – that Amy Morrison Rodriguez, the Founder of New England G.H.O.S.T. creates, and uses, multiple fake identities online on social networking sites such as Facebook and Twitter, and has also been known to create multiple e-mail addresses to represent herself as multiple personalities including, and most importantly, personalities which reside outside of the US – most specifically, in the UK.

Through Jen’s experiences we’ll learn how Amy Morrison Rodriguez, the founder of New England G.H.O.S.T. uses fake online identities to catfish, bully, harass, and threaten unsuspecting people who are representing themselves openly and honestly in online communities, and how – when her victims react to her instigation, she immediately attempts to attract a following of sympathizers and supporters into believing she is the one being bullied, harassed, and threatened.

If nothing else, this show should be an enlightening experience for our listeners.

We’ll also be discussing the benefits of anonymity to a person who conducts himself/herself with these types of tactics.  By doing so, we hope to educate the masses on how to avoid becoming this person’s next victim, or the victim of any other such social deviant.

  • [04:44] Amy Morrison Rodriguez sent emails pretending to be Douglass Lewis MacLeod
  • [06:44] Amy exposes herself ‘catfishing’ Jenny, as Douglass Lewis MacLeod
  • [08:21] Amy posted a photo of a male model and said it was her father, Douglass Lewis MacLeod
  • [10:15] Amy ‘catfished’ the paranormal community with fake ‘family’ social media profiles
  • [16:01] More of Amy Morrison Rodriguez’s catfishing with photos
  • [21:12] The same day Amy Morrison Rodriguez was removed from Maine Ghost Hunters organization Douglass Lewis MacLeod social media account suddenly & miraculously appears
  • [23:12] Amy claimed to Tony and Jenny her father was Royalty
  • [23:22] Amy Morrison Rodriguez becomes histrionic in a telephone call because no one believed her fake father, Douglass Lewis MacLeod, was real
  • [24:33] Amy Morrison Rodriguez had a fake emotional meltdown trying to convince her audience her non-existent father, Douglass Lewis MacLeod, was real
  • [24:51] Jenny Stewart challenges Amy Morrison Rodriguez to prove father Douglass Lewis MacLeod exists – Missionary Work – Out of the Country – Excuses – More lies
  • [28:44] To prove her fake father existed, Amy Morrison Rodriguez sent an email from ‘Douglass Lewis MacLeod’ to Jenny Stewart from a fake dot-com company that was set up just days prior
  • [29:20] Amy Morrison Rodriguez creates fake online entities to catfish victims
  • [29:27] Amy Morrison Rodriguez sent an email to Jenny Stewart from a fake corporation with a fake letterhead to convince Jenny that Douglass Lewis MacLeod existed
  • [30:46] Amy Morrison Rodriguez impersonated a lawyer from the UK to prove her non-existent father, Douglass Lewis MacLeod, existed
  • [32:30] Tony learned Amy Rodriguez Morrison impersonated a female lawyer to intimidate a fellow paranormal investigator
  • [35:49] Jenny Stewart expresses concern for Amy Morrison Rodriguez being in client houses in lieu of Amy’s apparent mental instability
  • [36:40] Amy Morrison Rodriguez claims she’s a victim of domestic violence to justify her repeated sociopathic behavior patterns
  • [39:12] Amy Morrison Rodriguez posed her non-existent ‘father’ Douglass Lewis MacLeod as her new paranormal team’s financial ‘benefactor’
  • [40:15] Another Maine team warns Jenny Stewart – in Maryland – to stay away from Amy Morrison Rodriguez because “she’s crazy”
  • [43:48] Background checks are necessary – Amy Morrison Rodriguez was exposed and still managed to convince people she was a victim
  • [44:18] Amy Morrison Rodriguez’s criminal history was exposed and she still convinced people she was the victim in her own arrest warrants and rap sheets
  • [47:24] Amy Morrison Rodriguez leads a Maryland client to fear sexual assault from a spirit presence, in a phone consultation from Maine
  • [49:06] Amy Morrison Rodriguez terrified a client with fake psychic fear mongering that caused client to flee her home with her child
  • [49:16] Amy Morrison Rodriguez injured herself during an investigation to convince team she was being attacked by a spirit
  • [50:11] Amy terrified a client with her ‘psychic’ advice, so thoroughly, the client refused to sleep in her house
  • [52:55] Amy Morrison Rodriguez creates chaotic atmospheres and places herself in the center of it all
  • [53:47] Amy Morrison Rodriguez lies publicly about how much experience she has in “the field of paranormal”
  • [55:00] Amy Morrison Rodriguez can’t pass a criminal background check; lies about it; requires team members to pass background check under her unqualified supervision
  • [01:03:13] Tony reads certified criminal complaint documentation and police reports belonging to Amy Morrison Rodriguez
  • [01:03:50] First criminal complaint docket – Amy Morrison Rodriguez – Arrest warrant affidavit – 6 Bullet Points
  • [01:06:22] Amy Morrison Rodriguez was caught trying to pass a bad check – faked pregnancy labor pains – fled being arrested
  • [01:07:23] Another criminal complaint docket – Another arrest warrant affidavit
  • [01:07:41] Amy Morrison Rodriguez identified as the perpetrator via police photo lineup
  • [01:14:00] Amy Morrison Rodriguez stole family heirloom brooch from victim Elizabeth Perlis
  • [01:17:30] Amy Morrison Rodriguez altered her last name on social media to be unrecognizable to those who didn’t already know who she was
  • [01:17:56] Reference to the many last names Amy Morrison Rodriguez uses
  • [01:20:29] Amy Morrison Rodriguez makes empty legal threats, publicly, against her victims when they speak out about her
  • [01:21:55] Amy Morrison Rodriguez told Jenny Stewart she (Amy) would ‘destroy Maine Ghost Hunters’
  • [01:23:24] Tony sent a warning to fellow Maine team about Amy – Amy manipulated them to respond with public attack of MGH they later, personally, regretted
  • [01:26:02] Amy Morrison Rodriguez created and forwarded fake emails to manipulate Jenny Stewart
  • [01:29:36] Amy Morrison Rodriguez perpetrates offenses onto victims and then tells others her victims perpetrated those actions onto her
  • [01:30:29] Amy Morrison Rodriguez connects herself, via social media, to her target-victims’ friends and family – infiltration tactic
  • [01:32:40] Jenny Stewart sends personal warnings of concern to audience and paranormal field about Amy Morrison Rodriguez
  • [01:34:39] The challenges of educating the paranormal field about fraud, scammers, and con artists in its matrix
  • [01:37:28] Tony declares – Some of the MGH ‘Fraud in Paranormal’ podcasts exist solely to warn the field of paranormal about Amy Morrison Rodriguez
  • [01:39:14] Amy Morrison Rodriguez’s apparent narcopathic-type tendencies are apparent, oftentimes documented, lifelong patterns

Check out these transcribed excerpts from this podcast interview with Jenny Stewart:
each segment is timestamped according to where they are found within the podcast

Tony: All right, we’re back. And Jenny, are you there?

Jenny: I am.

Tony: Hey, how you doing this evening?

Jenny: I’m good.

Tony: Good. Good. All right. Well, let’s just jump right into it.

Jenny: Okay.

Tony: It’s been quite a while since we’ve spoken before today, hasn’t it?

Jenny: It has been a while.

Tony: Yeah, and just, you know, I sent you an email a week ago and asked you if you wanted to come on and join the show related to the topic of paranormal fraud that we’ve been doing. We have quite a series going here. And you listened to the show, you know, the two shows we aired about a week ago or two weeks ago, and you were kind of shocked at what you had heard.

Jenny: I was. I mean, I wasn’t, it was, it was heartbreaking more than, I guess, shocked, but it was, it was very heartbreaking. And, you know, I can understand where the victim was coming from, because the person is very, you know, she can manipulate you to believe the way that she is trying to, you know, the side of the story she’s trying to convince you with. I fell into that trap too. So, and it just broke my heart. And I’m like, oh my gosh, you know, that poor woman, I felt really sorry for her. I did.

Tony: Now, you said you fell into that trap too, and we’ll get to that in a little bit here. Can you talk a little bit about what, what happened that kind of caused us to fall out and not communicate with each other anymore?

Jenny: Well, originally we all came in together on a project, that, that’s how we, you know, initially all met in person. And there was a lot of, I think a lot of manipulating going on in that, not on your part, but on some other parts from people that we brought in. You know, I was responsible for, I guess, you know, reacting in a way that I shouldn’t have, and in a very negative way. And then we all came back together because when we, we were actually on, you know, Animal Planet’s ‘The Haunted’, they did an episode. And that kind of set the stage for us to all become friends again, because you guys were actually in that episode. And then in the course of that time, the subject that we’re going to talk about tonight, she actually, at the time, I met her through, I guess she was, you know, friends with you all, and then I met her and that way, you know, through Facebook. And I remember the first time that I had my suspicions about her, I contacted Kat. And I said, I think there’s more to this than what we’re all seeing. I think that there’s just something not right about it. And the ultimate fallout, I think, the last time was that I just wouldn’t listen to Kat. And she was trying to tell me what, you know, what you guys had discovered. And I just, I was so hardheaded and so stubborn that, you know, I just wouldn’t listen. I just was like, no, you know, I’m not going to listen to this. I don’t believe you. She’s told me her side of it. Let me, you know, make my own decisions. So I think that, I think in a lot of ways, I don’t want to say ego, but it was more of a, you can’t tell me what to do type thing. So I guess maybe it was a little, does that make sense?

Tony: Yeah, I think everybody had a little bit of ego. So it’s okay to say that.

Jenny: Yeah. And looking back, it was kind of like, you know, I was the one that brought it to Kat. So I’m not sure why I didn’t just go ahead and listen to her, you know?

[04:44][Amy Morrison Rodriguez sent emails pretending to be Douglass Lewis MacLeod]
Tony: Yeah. All right. So, yeah. So you had had, you know, a little bit of a conversation with her and some interactions with her after, you know, we had kind of got back together and kind of mended our issues that we had with Henryton. And we were friendly again, and we were chatting again. And, you know, she had reached out to contact with you. Now, did you find that odd at all when, you know, one of our team members you didn’t know was reaching out to you?

Jenny: You know, I didn’t at first. I thought, you know, because they, she was a friend of yours, you know, a friend of yours. I thought, you know, I didn’t see that as odd, but when her fictitious father came into the picture, that’s when I did start seeing it as a little bit odd because when he sent the friend invite, all of a sudden, you know, this whole producer thing, and I’m going to say he, which was really her, Amy, pretending to be her father, would send emails. And, in fact, I really need to see if I can find those. But it was like, you know, my father knows a lot of producers. And if I remember correctly, he was a producer as well, or an attorney. I can’t remember which one because she’s told so many stories.

Tony: Yeah. So, Amy’s father, or you called him her fictitious father. What was it? Did you know right away that he was fictitious? Or was there anything just as suspicious about his friending you?

Jenny: Yeah. I mean, right off, I was a little kind of iffy about it because, you know, I didn’t see that you guys had a very big, you know, strong connection with this, you know, supposed father. You know, I did see that he was friends with various other people. But I found it really odd that her father was adding people that she knew.

[06:44] [Amy exposes herself ‘catfishing’ Jenny, as Douglass Lewis MacLeod]

Jenny: And I was in an interview one night because the TV show had aired, The Haunted. And so, I was on as a guest on another radio show. And it wasn’t going so well. I wasn’t comfortable on this show. And I had put a status update on my Facebook page. The next thing I know, her, and I can’t even remember what Amy used as the father’s name. I think it was like Frederick or something really weird. That’s how well my memory is. But they showed up in the chat room.

Tony: Douglass Lewis MacLeod

Jenny: I didn’t hear you.

Tony: It was Douglass. Douglas Lewis-McLeod.

Jenny: Douglas. That was it. Douglas. He showed up in the chat room. And at one point during the conversation, you know, of the chat, he flipped up. And instead of using the third person, you know, talking about Amy as his daughter, he said something about the team audio. Speaking of, I guess your-all’s team, team audio that he had to review. And I said, what are you doing reviewing, you know, that? Why are you-? He goes, well, Amy likes to send me some of the clips so I can hear them. And right then, that just stayed on my brain all night. And the next day is when I contacted Kat and said, look, something is not right here.

Tony: So he came in or his persona came into your chat room, into your radio station to listen. And like you said, he stopped using the third person. So it was like he was talking about himself.

Jenny: Exactly. Exactly.

Tony: And liking to review audio.

[08:21] [Amy posted a photo of a male model and said it was her father, Douglass Lewis MacLeod]

Jenny: Yes. Yes. And it was the way that it was written was like if Amy had forgotten who she was and started typing. And when I called, you know, I called him out on it, obviously. I’m like, well, you know, what do you mean? He goes, well, I meant my daughter, you know, you know, blah, blah, blah. And she tells me everything. And she, you know, sends me clips to listen to. And I just found that really odd. I mean, first of all, you know, we all we all can flip up sometimes. And when you’re typing and make errors, you know, typos, but it was too big of a it couldn’t have been a typo the way that it was written, because it was written as if he was speaking of himself. And when you call that on it, that he immediately well, she did corrected it to be, you know, my daughter Amy. And the picture that he that they had on this Douglas page that was her supposed father, you would look at it and you could tell that it was one of those that you could go like out on like Google images and find

Tony: Yeah, yeah.

Jenny: And, you know, you can just look at it and tell that it there’s this, you know, he’s supposedly like this really wealthy man. Well, if you’re that wealthy, you know, even in that wealthy, I mean, it just, there was no pictures. It was just that one picture. And I think at one point, Amy had put on his page, basically talking to herself, that, you know, you need to get more updated picture, because, you know, that one, you know, you’re so young in it, and you don’t look like that anymore. And I’m thinking, you know, she, she was, she looked so stupid when she did that. I hate to say that, because she was having a conversation with herself. Because right underneath of it, you know, she would sign into his account and type things underneath of it to respond back to her.

Tony: Right? Yeah.

Jenny: That takes a lot of energy and time.

[10:15] [Amy ‘catfished’ the paranormal community with fake ‘family’ social media profiles]

Tony: It certainly does. And we just want to, you know, just to be clear, we’re talking about tonight’s show is really about, you know, the fake identities that she created and how she manipulated those conversations and pretended to be somebody she wasn’t. And it wasn’t just that one identity. There were other identities she used that she pretended where she was somebody else. But, you know, she put that one photo on there. And I think you kind of struck a chord there. She put that one photo on there of this young, you know, a younger person than who she was trying to portray. And it was like a model’s photo.

Jenny: It was like a-

Tony: It was very, it was very obvious it was fake.

Jenny: Yes. It was like the stock picture that you would get in Google images. And, you know, you could tell by looking at it, there’s just something, you know, had she like used somebody else where it was like family pictures and, you know, different pictures of him. I may not have gotten as suspicious as quickly, but there’s one picture and he didn’t have a lot of friends. I think there, I think she even made up some family names.

Tony: Yeah

Jenny: I don’t know if you ever caught that. She made up actual pages with other family names that it was like supposed to be like nephew. And those are pages she created.

Tony: Right. Yep. Absolutely. And did you notice that, so here’s this man, he was supposed to be, you know, like you said, rich. And he had this one photo of himself. And he had this, you know, Oxford or I can’t remember what university he claimed to have gone to, but some prestigious university. And he was supposed to be, you know, the owner or yeah, he is or worked for an undisclosed production company.

Jenny: mhm, mhm, I remember that. Right. I remember that – media mogul.

Tony: Yeah. He’s supposed to be some media mogul, and he never had any other family profiles, right.

Jenny: Uh Huh. Exactly. Exactly.

Tony: Except for Amy who he, who he, you know, he kind of created,

Jenny: he had created, I don’t know if you caught that there was like a cousin or a nephew or something on that page at one time. And it was a, it was another page that she created because I actually friended, I think it was listed as a nephew because I actually friended her and had the same last name as what he was supposed to have had. And there was really never anything like updated on that other page that was supposed to be a nephew.

Tony: Yeah. Now, how long had it been that you had been friends with Amy before her fictitious father came into play on Facebook before you saw him and he friended you?

Jenny: Uhmmm. It could have been more than a week and a half, if that long. It wasn’t very long.

Tony: Right. Right. It wasn’t long after he came onto Facebook that he friended you. It wasn’t long that you were friends with Amy before he tried to do.

Jenny: Uhm, I’m not sure. He had been on Facebook. He hadn’t been, I don’t think on Facebook too long. I’m not sure how long he’d been on it, but it wasn’t too long after she friended me that he friended me. And it was always the whole ruse that, you know, any friend of my daughter’s is a friend of mine. And, you know, and, you know, we had just, we had just finished, you know, they just aired the TV show. So we did get a lot of friend invites after that. So I just kind of took it as, well, you know, that’s why it didn’t seem as suspicious when she invited us. Because a lot of people did. When we got the one from him, I just found that really odd.

Tony: Yeah. And you can like, you can tell how long he had been on there because he didn’t have a lot of friends, right?

Jenny: No

Tony: When he friended you, you may have had, you know, maybe 10, 15, 20 friends.

Jenny: I don’t even think there was 10, to be honest, Tony. I think there was just a handful. And it was just immediate people like, you know, there were some people that had been added, I think, after we all were his friend, you know, with the supposed father. And I remember, I think she thought, she knew that we were all getting a little suspicious. And that’s when she added the nephew one, or the one with the same last name that kind of gave us the impression that, yeah, oh, well, you know, it has to be legit because there’s other family members attached to the page.

Tony: Right. And all the conversations, I mean, he was having conversations with all the people as well as the other additional family members.

Jenny: Yeah, he actually did. Yeah.

Tony: Yeah, he did. So and, and oddly enough, those conversations were going on at times when if you were actually in the UK, you really should have been asleep.

Jenny: I agree. Because I even made a comment when he was in the chat room at that radio show, which it gets confusing, because I was really acting as him. But I even made a comment. I said, Aren’t you up very late for where you’re at? And the comment was made. Oh, I never sleep. I’m up all hours of the night and day. And I just, you know, there was just that. And I mean, he, he, she, however, you want to look at it. I mean, he was just like, going just in there in the chat room, just typing crazy to everybody, you know, just talking a lot to everybody. Yeah. And I just looked back on that. And it was like, it was weird.

Tony: Now was, was there anything unusual about the friends that he was making?

Jenny: The friends? I didn’t hear the friends. What?

Tony: Did you find anything unusual, unusual about the friends that he was making on Facebook?

Jenny: They were all paranormal related.

Tony: Yeah, they’re all paranormal related. Everyone one of them.

Jenny: Yeah.

[16:01] [More of Amy Morrison Rodriguez’s catfishing with photos]

Jenny: They were. And that, I did find that odd as well. And, you know, at first when I, you know, I kept going back and forth with myself because I had a really hard time. I didn’t, you know, want to approach Kat. And I actually, in the letter that I wrote her recently, you know, I said, I said, I’m really not trying to be negative or anything towards anybody, but I just find things. And that’s when I told her about, in the email that I sent her about the, you know, conversation in the chat room. And it just, it just seems really odd that all of a sudden he’s got all these paranormal friends. He was supposed to be a wealthy producer. And then I remember seeing at one point on her page, she supposedly went to visit him and they were out sailing and you saw all these pictures that you put up that you can actually find those pictures in Google now.

Tony: Oh, really?

Jenny: Yeah. I don’t know if you, I don’t know if I ever told you all that or not.

Tony: No, you didn’t.

Yeah. Those are Flickr and Google pictures.

Tony: That’s interesting. We kind of suspected as much. And since you mentioned that, what was the oddest thing about all those photos that she posted about her and her family’s vacation?

Jenny: None of them were in them.

Tony: Right. None of them.

Jenny: There was no father. There was no Amy, there was no Amy’s, you know, family, you know, media. They’re none of them. They were just all of the scenery.

Tony: Yeah. And did she, did she mention anything about her father’s boat to you?

Jenny: She never directly mentioned that to me, but I know that I had seen that in some of the statuses and things that she had talked about. I believe they were supposed to be out on his yacht sailing for like so many days. And that’s when she supposedly snapped all these pictures, but yet there were no pictures of her on the boat.

Tony: Exactly.

Jenny: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Tony: So part of her, she’d gone out to California to visit him with her family in one of his many houses, because he’s so rich and had gone sailing on his yacht and, but no pictures of them having fun in any of these locations. None of them.

Jenny: None of them with the kids or anything. I mean, she’s got kids. There was nothing, nothing at all. And that did strike me odd, you know, because when you’re in family outings like this, especially if you haven’t seen your, you know, supposed father in so long, I mean, you would want pictures with him in them.

Tony: Yeah. Now you bring up another good point. She mentioned that she had not seen her father for a very long time. So you knew that.

Jenny: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. She told me that.

Tony: Yep. Go ahead. Sorry.

Jenny: No, I was just going to say, yes, she had actually told me that, but she hadn’t seen him in a while. It’s been a while.

Tony: But yet here he is right back in her life, every single day, having a conversation with her and hundreds and thousands by the end of his, end of her charade, hundreds and thousands of paranormal community friends.

Jenny: Oh, see, I got, I didn’t see the end result because I actually did delete him. Excuse me, because I, it just, it was just too weird for me. It was, it was one of those things. And, you know, and I told her, you know, and I kept, I kept telling her, I even told her towards the, you know, I said, look, I said Amy, we all make mistakes. You know, if you did that, if I, you know, you just tell me, you know, I’d rather you tell me and, you know, own up to things, then, you know, continue to, you know, kind of make us all look like idiots. And even on the phone, even when she was called out on it, she continued to maintain that that was her dad. And, you know, she didn’t lie. And, you know, if I wanted the documentary produced, I could get that done. He had no problem. And I’m just, I remember it was like, that was her pull. It’s like she found something that she thought she could use to leverage her way into people’s lives. (Yeah) But, you know, pretty, I mean, and I hate to say this, but there’s a lot of teams that have popped up around the country. We all know this. Their main goal is to be on television. You know, (Right) that’s the hype for them. So what better way to get inside those teams and befriend all those by saying, oh, my dad’s a producer. He works for a production company.

Tony: Exactly.

Jenny: I mean, she’s not all bad in the head, but she’s not all stupid either.

Tony: No, she knows how to manipulate people. That’s what she knows how to do.

Jenny: Mm hmm. She’s very good at that.

Tony: Yeah, very good at that. And she’s very charismatic. I mean, she’s very, (Yes) it’s very easy for her to convince somebody in person that she is telling the truth and somebody else is lying.

Jenny: Well, she thinks 20 steps ahead. You know, normal people that are honest, that don’t manipulate people, they can’t comprehend what she’s doing because she’s always 20 steps ahead of the normal person because she has that entire pattern laid out before she even strikes to use it.

[21:12] [The same day Amy Morrison Rodriguez was removed from Maine Ghost Hunters organization Douglass Lewis MacLeod social media account suddenly & miraculously appears]

Tony: Now, did you know that, did you know that, you know, the very night that Douglas Lewis McLeod showed up on Facebook was the day, that was the night after we met with Amy in the morning and we told her based on all the lies that she had told us and all the commotion and drama she had caused within our team and all the stress that she had caused between Kat and I that she needed to leave our team?

Jenny: Oh, and he showed up then?

Tony: He showed up that night. We had been telling her, I had been telling her for weeks, I need proof that your father existed because I think you’re full of crap, basically. Because she had told us some very wild stories. I mean, just ridiculously wild stories. And you see some of those wild stories, but that’s nothing compared to the things that she told us. I can only imagine. Anyway, so I had had enough and I told her Amy, you need to give us proof that your father exists. I don’t care what it is, it needs to be something. And then she, David was there with us. It was me and Kat and David, we had met her at Panera Bread. And when she was cornered and there was absolutely nowhere else to go, she was like a rat, cornered (mhm) by, you know, she just, she lashed out. She started swearing in public, we’re in public, there are families around us eating their breakfast. And she’s swearing at me and calling me names and oh, it was ridiculous.

Jenny: I remember, if I’m not mistaken, I know Kat, I remember now Kat mentioning that and I think that Amy had actually told me that that you guys had pretty much cornered her and that was her dad’s way of saying, look, you know, I exist.

Tony: Right. Yeah, of course. After months of, you know, now all of a sudden, this very secretive person is hiding from the paparazzi. Now he’s all over Facebook, making all kinds of paranormal friends. Made a lot of sense to me.

Jenny: And you can’t find that, you can’t find his name associated with any pictures on anywhere on the internet.

Tony: Anywhere. Yeah.

Jenny: At least I couldn’t.

[23:12] [Amy claimed to Tony and Jenny her father was Royalty]

Tony: And there are a few links when we tried to research and find out who, because, you know, she had claimed that he was royalty. And there are links on there about that.

Jenny: Yeah. I remember that.

Tony: Yeh

[23:22] [Amy Morrison Rodriguez becomes histrionic in a telephone call because no one believed her fake father, Douglass Lewis MacLeod, was real]

Jenny: I remember that. I do. I believe it’s called identity theft. I do. (Yeah, Yeah) I do remember that. Yeah. Yeah, because it, nothing like that. Yeah, I know what you’re talking about. Yes. She, (Yeah) and the thing is, Tony, I had her on the phone. I mean, and, you know, cause when I had contacted Kat, you know, I knew that it was causing, you know, a lot of problems because you obviously knew, right. You felt that suspicion right away, (Yeah) like I did. And she was on the phone crying and she’s like, I don’t understand why everybody’s turning on me. And, you know, I’m trying to help. And, you know, my dad doesn’t want to do anything but help and how dare people, you know, question that. And, and I tried to make her understand, you know, Amy, this is why people are questioning, you know, that we all make mistakes. And if you did just own up to it, she would not do that at all. I mean, she was very adamant that that was her father and I’m like, okay. So she believed it. So either she psychologically, she does believe it or she just wouldn’t tell the truth. (Right) Or both.

[24:33] [Amy Morrison Rodriguez had a fake emotional meltdown trying to convince her audience her non-existent father, Douglass Lewis MacLeod, was real]
Tony: So she called you up on the phone and she was dramatically crying. She, she was the one that was victimized. She was all upset because nobody believed her. And it was her real father. And, and we were the awful people lying about her. And, and she was, she made you feel that that was real.

[24:51] [Jenny Stewart challenges Amy Morrison Rodriguez to prove father Douglass Lewis MacLeod exists – Missionary Work – Out of the Country – Excuses – More lies]

Jenny: Oh yeah. Oh, exactly. And, um, she’s very convincing. I mean, because she would, she would cry so hard that, you know, you would, you would hear her almost hyperventilate and I’d be like, just calm down. And she would play on every heartstring that she knew, you know, she knew that the things to, you know, push with me to get me to back off. Um, and, and I don’t like making people upset. That’s just, I don’t, it really bothers me. And she knew that. And so anytime that I would approach the hole, okay, so, you know, why is this a question? You know, well, I don’t understand why in chat it was done this way, you know? And she would just start crying. You know, I don’t know why you did that. You know, that’s my dad, you know, you ask him and I’m like, give me a phone number and I will, you know, or have your dad call me. I mean, never. He was always, it was, he was conveniently out of the country. Anytime that you asked to speak to him or you ask for a phone number. And I finally turned around and said, you know, they have phones out of the country. I mean, just because he’s in a different country, you know, they have phones. And I think at one point she even said that you’ve done missionary work. I don’t know if you guys ever heard that story. Did you ever hear a story about missionary work?

Tony: No. I don’t believe I’ve ever heard that story.

Jenny: Yeah, that was missionary work.

Tony: Missionary work. Okay. Oh, yeah. Okay. So you kept asking her if he would call you or if you could call him and like that he was conveniently out of the country.

Jenny: Mm-hmm. Exactly.

Tony: Right. Now there are cell phones. People carry cell phones around with them.

Jenny: Oh, Skype has been around for a long time. You can call from country to country for free now.

Jenny: I mean, there was no reason why, you know, I think at one point she avoided my phone calls and then we talked and that’s when the whole missionary story came up. And he was in a, he was a third world country. That’s when, and after that I slowly started really pulling back because I’m like, you know, and there was, there’s two other ladies that, you know, that were out in Maine that actually had dealings with her, that they had sent me an email and called me and they said, she’s crazy. Stay away from her. Because Amy was trying to get them to, I guess, merge a team with hers.

Tony: Yes.

Jenny: Yeah. Yeah. Like stay away from her. And I’m like, yeah, a little late. I’ve got to figure that one out. But she did. I mean, and you know, it’s really heart-wrenching to see her website because I actually, when I was listening, I didn’t even know that she had that. But when I was listening to the show that had the victim on it, Your-All’s last show, I actually went to the website as you were giving her the URL. And first of all, I looked and I said, oh my gosh, that picture is itself of her – Of Amy – It’s just, it’s very chilling. It’s very, she looks strange in that picture. And then I saw that she has international chapters (laughing) and I’m thinking, okay, if she really does, then she’s screwing a lot of homes up. That’s all, you know, because she doesn’t know what she’s doing. And I learned that firsthand, but she, and I don’t know what she was thinking. She referred a case to us and I don’t know what she was thinking when she did that.

Tony: Yeah. So, so I want to expand a little bit on a couple of things that you said. So she said that he was out doing missionary work in a third world country.

Jenny: Yes. That’s why

Tony: she didn’t say which country. Sorry.

Jenny: No, just the third world country. That’s why he couldn’t call me.

Tony: All right. Okay.

Jenny: I said, how convenient.

Tony: But he was able to email you.

Jenny: Do what?

Tony: He was able to email you, right? You exchanged a few emails with him.

[28:44] [To prove her fake father existed, Amy Morrison Rodriguez sent an email from ‘Douglass Lewis MacLeod’ to Jenny Stewart from a fake dot-com company that was set up just days prior]

Jenny: I did. I did. Not when he was supposed to be in the third world country. During all of the whole fallout and everybody is questioning her, I actually did get an email and it was from a company that we, it was from a dot com company and I need to really find all that. It was from a dot com company that my husband actually traced back to the ownership of it and the dot com had just been bought, like not even three or four days before the email was sent. (Hm) Yeah. So, I mean, she created (laughing) the dot com that’s in the email.

[29:20] [Amy Morrison Rodriguez creates fake online entities to catfish victims]

Tony: Yeah. She’s very good at that. She’s very good at creating dot coms and fake corporations all over the place.

[29:27] [Amy Morrison Rodriguez sent an email to Jenny Stewart from a fake corporation with a fake letterhead to convince Jenny that Douglass Lewis MacLeod existed]
Jenny: Yes. (Yep) Yes. That was a corporation dot com and I’ll try to find that. And when I do, I’ll make sure you guys get a copy of it. But it was a, I mean, it had a letterhead on, you know, it was an email with a letterhead, you know, and I’m thinking, this is just so, you could tell by looking at the email it was fake.

Tony: Right.

Jenny: And, you know, I played along with it to see if she would go as far as to possibly have him, you know, contact me. Could never find out what production company he worked for or was affiliated with at all.

Tony: You said that you didn’t know, can you repeat that? I’m sorry.

Jenny: I didn’t hear you

Tony: No that’s what I s- I couldn’t hear you, either. I was asking if you could repeat that last part?

Jenny: I would repeatedly ask what production company he was affiliated with and I would never get a response with, you know, well, we can’t disclose that information, blah, blah, blah. And that kind of threw me off. And, you know, at the time, we had just finished working with Chris Bozak and George Plainham from Picture Shack doing The Haunted. I actually contacted Chris Bozak and said, hey, have you ever heard of this person in any production company in this country or over in the U.K.? And no one had heard of him within any production company.

[30:46] [Amy Morrison Rodriguez impersonated a lawyer from the UK to prove her non-existent father, Douglass Lewis MacLeod, existed]

Tony: Yeah. Now, before we go, there are a couple of other ways I want to go with some questions, but before we do, I want to expand on that fact that he did not own a production company and that he didn’t exist. Do you know that, you know, I asked you about having **** come on and share some experiences that she had with Amy. And one of those experiences was a phone call that she got from a female who was pretending to be a lawyer representing her father’s production company. So this person, Amy actually called **** and told her, I’m so-and-so from such-and-such a firm, and I represent Douglas Lewis MacLeod and his production company, and you are not allowed to use any of the video that was captured by Maine Ghost Hunters during your filming of the Henryton Project.

Jenny: I do remember her mentioning that, because she and I actually did have a falling out as well. And I do, when we, you know, had rekindled, reconciled the friendship again, I do remember her talking about that. I don’t know the details of it, but I do know that that was mentioned to me, that there was a phone call like that.

Tony: Yep. So she actually, she said the name of the attorney. Amy had actually said the name of the attorney, and *** repeated the name of that attorney to me. We confronted Amy, or Kat actually confronted Amy, and said she wanted to know if it was true, who the attorney was. So we got the name and the name of the firm. I contacted the firm. She must have found them on the internet, because that’s what I did. I searched for the firm on the internet and found that attorney’s name as an attorney for that firm. I called them.

Jenny: Oh, wow.

[32:30] [Tony learned Amy Rodriguez Morrison impersonated a female lawyer to intimidate a fellow paranormal investigator]

Tony: And their response to me, so this was a real person, the attorney, except it wasn’t a real person who contacted ******, but she picked the name of a real firm and the name of a real attorney and used that to pretend to be somebody. I contacted them. The attorney said, I don’t have any Douglas Lewis McLeod. We’ve never heard of a Douglas Lewis McLeod. We’ve never made any calls to anybody in the U.S., didn’t know who Amy was.

Jenny: Wow.

Tony: Yeah.

Jenny: So she went as far as to actually locate an actual attorney. See, that’s what she does. It’s like she’s, when I say she’s like 20 steps ahead of everybody else, that’s the kind of thing she does. You know, I’ll use the name of an actual attorney’s office if anybody checks.

Tony: Right. Wow. Yep, that’s exactly what she did.

Jenny: That’s scary, Tony. That is actually scary. That is crazy, and that’s very scary. Because I wonder how many other people she’s done that to.

Tony: Yeah, Oh, I’m sure. We weren’t the first.

Jenny: Yeah, that’s… Now what? (Laughing) I just shake my head if I look back on it and think of how she manipulated everybody so easily. She’s good at it.

Tony: Yeah. Oh, she’s very good at it.

Jenny: Yeah, the more I find out, the more I feel like an idiot. I really do, because she, you know, I try to, you know, think of myself as a little bit of intelligence there, you know, and she was good. And so you can’t break those kind of traits. You know, you can’t one day get up and decide that you’re not going to manipulate people. You know, she has to still be doing that kind of stuff.

Tony: Oh, you would think so, wouldn’t you?

Jenny: Yeah, well, looking at her website, I would say she is.

Tony: Yeah, and, you know, she says these things and does these things and they sound, you know, they sound so crazy that if you repeat them to somebody else or you try to tell somebody about these crazy things that she’s doing or saying, that you actually sound crazy, which is what you thought, right?

Jenny: Yeah, that’s the scary part of it, because a normal person can’t think that way. You know, we just don’t… Our brain doesn’t compute things like that. And when you start explaining this to somebody, they’re going to, you know, yeah, she becomes the victim nine times out of ten, and she likes being the victim.

Tony: Her being the victim, her playing the victim is how she gets through life. This is her life. Yeah, I see that now.

Jenny: And this isn’t something she just started doing.

Tony: This isn’t something she did, you know, five years ago. This is something she’s been doing since she was a very little girl in grade school. And this story about her father, who’s royalty, and her being descendants of royalty, and her father being some wealthy producer from Hollywood, she’s been telling since she was in, I don’t know, third or fourth grade.

Jenny: So this is like a fairy tale that she dreamed up of herself, and she… Does she actually believe it, or does she know that she’s telling that as a lie? That’s what I’m curious to know.

Tony: You know, we’re curious about that, too.

[35:49] [Jenny Stewart expresses concern for Amy Morrison Rodriguez being in client houses in lieu of Amy’s apparent mental instability]

Jenny: And people like that are very scary. And she’s going into people’s houses. That in itself scares me to death, because now I’m beginning to wonder if the case that she referred to, if she didn’t put her up to contact it, that’s… Oh, you got my mind thinking in a whole different direction now. I really… I mean, in… Off the air, I’ll tell you about this case, and you’re going to probably go… Yeah, now looking back on it, I’m going, I wonder. You know, if she didn’t pick this person out and say, hey, you know, do you got this going on with you? Oh, wow. And I owe Kat an apology. So could you pass that on to her? Tell her I am very sorry that I did not listen to her, that I was wrong and she was completely right.

Tony: Well, she’ll hear the show. She’ll know.

Jenny: So… I just… I feel really… Go ahead. I’m sorry.

[36:40] [Amy Morrison Rodriguez uses “domestic violence” for her repeated sociopathic behavior patterns]

Tony: Anyway, yeah, so Kat will be listening to the show, so she’ll hear it. And I wanted to expand a little bit more on, you know, the fact that, you know, this is a behavior. This is a pattern of behaviors. These are things that she repeats over time. This isn’t… She plays it off as something she did because she was in an abusive relationship and she had no choice. It wasn’t her fault. Of course, nothing is her fault. She plays it off as if it was a bad time in her life and it was a very short period of time. But this is a repeated behavior over years. We just haven’t found everything yet. She’s stole from that woman.

Jenny: And it’s probably… And, you know, honestly, you probably won’t find everything because there’s probably so much out there, Tony, that you probably… I just… My eyes are open that much further. You know, I knew she was, you know, more of a fraud than anything. And I felt sorry for her. Even knowing she was a fraud, I felt sorry for her because, you know, I thought, well, maybe she did have a horrible life and that was her escape, you know. But, you know, then it goes deeper and you just… It’s like she knows the right people to go after.

Tony: Right

Jenny: It’s like she hones in on them. She knows… She seeks out the people that are going to believe her the deepest. And then how dare you ever question her because she’s a victim. And it’s just… That’s scary. And now she’s got a paranormal team. That’s even scarier.

Tony: Yeah.

Jenny: I mean…

Tony: Right now, her teams are the ones… Her team members and her branch teams are the ones who are going to suffer. Do you remember when her father first came about? She created a team called… It was New England Ghost Hunters. So now it’s New England Ghosts. She created New England Ghost Hunters. And…

Jenny: I remember that.

Tony: Her father was listed on that team, page. Do you remember that?

Jenny: I remember that. I do. And… He was going to…

Tony: Do you remember what…

Jenny: He was going to finance all their trips and stuff.

Tony: Exactly. And she was planning a trip, wasn’t she?

Jenny: Yes.

Tony: And… So she was planning a paranormal road trip?

Jenny: Yes. I remember that. Mhm.

Tony: And that was a pretty extensive… Go ahead.

Jenny: No. I was going to say, I remember getting event invites from her for the paranormal road trips.

[39:12] [Amy Morrison Rodriguez posed her non-existent ‘father’ Douglass Lewis MacLeod as her new paranormal team’s ‘benefactor’]

Tony: Yeah. Yep. So her father, Douglas Lewis McLeod, who doesn’t exist, he’s not real, was listed as the benefactor for the team. And she was planning this extensive, elaborate road trip, paranormal road trip. And they were going to hit all these big hot spots, like Bobby Mackey’s, theye were going to go to Gettysburg, they were going to go to Waverly. And she was asking people to sign up. And I think the worst thing about it, and this is what put us off so much and made us realize we need to start telling people what she’s doing, was she was going to charge people.

Jenny: Oh, wow.

Tony: Yeah, for the trip. Now, I don’t know if she ever actually collected any money or not, but there were lots of people that were saying, I’m in, I’m going.

Jenny: Makes you wonder how many people she ripped off.

Tony: Yeah, doesn’t it?

Jenny: Because they had a Waverly trip, Waverly Hills. I remember Bobby Mackey. I mean, they had a whole bunch of them. And she actually was listing prices and everything else.

Tony: Yep, she was.

Jenny: Yep, I remember that.

[40:15] [Another Maine team warns Jenny Stewart – in Maryland – to stay away from Amy Morrison Rodriguez because she’s “crazy”]
Tony: So here she comes onto the scene. She’s causing the stir. She’s making up this fake identity, making up all these fake plans for paranormal trips. Now, you said that you were contacted by some other paranormal people here in Maine who told you that this woman is crazy and you need to stay away from her?

Jenny: Yes.

Tony: Do you want to elaborate on that at all?

Jenny: I was contacted by… Do you know who I’m talking about? Do you know who I’m talking about? Yeah, I do. She, Amy had contacted them and had given them my phone number and asked them to call me because Amy was trying to turn me against you guys even after Kat and I had had our disagreement and fallen out. After they had talked to her a couple of times, they contacted me and said, just stay away from her, she’s crazy. So, yeah, they had dealings with her as well.

Tony: Yeah.

Jenny: And I noticed that he was using a logo that’s very similar to yours.

Tony: Oh, yeah. So, yeah, I noticed that. That’s intentional. She’s doing that on purpose.

Jenny: Yeah, and she still lives herself as being from Palm Springs, California. Yeah, she was actually born in California. I don’t think she lived there for very long. Yeah.

Jenny: It’s very scary. But she lists herself as having branches throughout New England, the U.S., and international with over 100 active team members (Yeah) within her 24 branches.

Tony: Yeah.

Jenny: That’s scary.

Tony: does she list her – now. I haven’t seen it for some time, but she used to list herself as a 13th generation psychic. Does she still do that?

Jenny: I’m looking. I don’t know. I don’t see that. Oh, I remember- Remember the test that she was taking?

Tony: Oh, yeah, the test. Why don’t you talk about that a little bit.

Jenny: I forgot about that. She was taking some kind of mediumship test, and she kept talking about how she was scared that she wasn’t going to pass it. I remember that. It was supposedly… It had something to do with her being… It was about her being the generational medium, and she was so gifted that they wanted her to take this test at this institute. I’m beginning to wonder if it wasn’t a psychological test.

Tony: (laughing)

Jenny: I’m sorry.

Tony: We have similar messages from her where she talks about, Oh, they want to test me. They want to do thorough testing, but I’ll have to stay there for long periods of time, and I’m so accurate.

Jenny: Yeah, I’m at her website now, and that’s just scary. It’s. I’m trying to see if her site… I don’t know. This is the first time I’ve seen it. Well, I saw it the first time when you were doing the thing with the show, the podcast with the lady that was a victim. If you go to her website, that is your all’s logo. She put a different face on it.

Tony: Yep.

Jenny: I just… Ugh. Yeah, I just… Like-minded individuals, that’s a little scary.

Tony: (laughing) Yeah, they are like-minded, and then they’re all causing problems, aren’t they.

[43:48] [Background checks are necessary – Amy Morrison Rodriguez was exposed and still managed to convince people she was a victim]
Jenny: Uh, yeah, I wonder what the rap scenes look like. The whole message that paranormal teens really should have out there is that you need to do background checks thoroughly on people. Even people that you think that are not the type that would… Because you would never think that she was that type to talk to her.

[44:18] [Amy Morrison Rodriguez’s criminal history was exposed and she still convinced people she was the victim in her own rap sheets]
You would never know. When I saw some of the stuff that you guys had presented to the public for the first time, I liked to fall out of my chair. And even then I was trying to give her the benefit of the doubt. (Yeh) I was… Yeah. Because she was so concerned. I’m like, well, you know… Because I don’t know if you look my name up, there’s some of me all over the country. And I’m like, well, maybe this is just… I said, have you tried to talk to her? Oh, no, no. And I still felt sorry for her. That’s the sad part about it. Even after there was stuff that was presented in black and white, I still felt sorry for her. Because I was thinking, here she’s been through such abuse. And how dare people pick on her? Don’t do this. And it’s kind of like… When I got the phone call from the other team that had obviously seen some of the psychological issues as well, I really had to take a step back and then the whole thing with her dad. Oh, he’s in a third world country on a missionary. How convenient. But I didn’t completely walk away. I just didn’t…

I did not have any more direct communication with her until she sent me an email and asked me there was a case that she had picked up out in Baltimore and asked if I would be interested, she would like to refer it to me. Because she didn’t trust anybody else with it. And as crazy as that case was, I swear, Tony, if I ever find out that that was off stage, I just… Because we spent a lot of time… We spent our New Year’s Day with this lady. She had a lot… And when I say this, people are going to go, oh my gosh. But she, the claim was that the woman was being abused. She was being by ghost. And when we first got the case, I’m thinking, you know, because you don’t hear about that stuff. But I still had to put it… I took the case. The lady was a guard at a prison. And I’ll tell you, it makes you wonder now, you know.

Tony: So this was a case in Maryland?

Jenny: Mhm. It was a case in Maryland that she referred to us, yeah.

Tony: So you got to wonder how a case in Maryland like that got to Amy to refer to you.

Jenny: Exactly. Because I even questioned that. You know, I thought… And we asked her, and she said that she had found – I guess, Amy, on a group, I guess like a forum. So I don’t know if somebody said, hey, you know, contact this group. But she did. She referred that case to me. It was last year? Because we… It was last… I got the case in November of last year, and we closed it out on New Year’s Day of this year.

Tony: So November of 2010?

[47:24] [Amy Morrison Rodriguez leads a Maryland client to fear sexual abuse from a spirit presence, in a phone consultation from Maine]

Jenny: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And we closed it. We did the final investigation. Don’t get me wrong. There was definitely something in this woman’s house. But I’m wondering now. I mean, there really was something there. But, I mean, the things that the lady told us that Amy had told her makes me wonder now if, you know, because we can cause things to manifest ourselves. But I know that when she had discussed with Amy the fact that she was having a lot of poking and things like that on her back and things like that, she said that Amy had told her. She said, I hope that it isn’t going to try to become sexual with you. And then within a week, the lady was complaining that, you know, something was trying to have anal sex with her.

Tony: Oh, my goodness.

Jenny: Yeah. So it just makes you wonder how much, you know, because if she bought the trust of Amy, you know, bought into it, then I wonder if Amy didn’t feed that into her, you know? Right.

Tony: Yeah. And Amy actually did that on one of our investigations. We went into a client investigation where the only complaint, the client was curious. The client just wanted to know, I’m hearing footsteps. I just want to know what they are. I hear them, but, you know, they don’t bother me every now and again. I just hear them going up and down the stairs every now and again. And I want to know. I thought I heard the door open and close one time and then the door and then the footsteps. So I just want to know what’s going on in my house. And she had a young boy. And we went to do an investigation with this location.

[49:06] [Amy Morrison Rodriguez terrified a client with fake psychic fear mongering that cause client to flee her home with her child]

Tony: And this was the night she scared the living crap out of this client. Told her there was some evil entity in the house. Basically pretended to chase the entity around the house until she got it to leave the house.

[49:16] [Amy Morrison Rodriguez injured herself during an investigation to convince team she was being attacked by a spirit]

Tony: But in the process, she faked being scratched. And we have this all on film. We actually saw her almost try to pretend at one point and we didn’t quite buy it. So she didn’t fake it enough for us to realize she was trying to present herself as being scratched. And then later on in the evening, she did it again and showed us scratch marks on her neck. And then, you know, she kept hollering to the entity in the house saying, tell me your name. I demand you tell me your name. Like she was trying to do some sort of exorcism in the house.

Jenny: Yeah and

Tony: And at the end of the night, the client would not stay in her home. She had to leave that night. She couldn’t stay there.

Jenny: Because of what she did.

Tony: Yeah.

[50:11] [Amy terrified a client with her ‘psychic’ advice, so thoroughly, the client refused to sleep in her house]

Jenny: And that’s what I’m wondering if she didn’t do this. Because this poor lady, she was sleeping in her car. Would not go into her apartment. And she was very scared to. And, I mean, we literally, because you know, if you have those fears. And, you know, this lady was going on the internet. And she was having people do house clearings remotely. I mean, she was paying people over the internet. And, you know, we finally had to tell her, you have to stop doing that. But the things that, you know, on the case notes, I remember, well, Amy said this. Amy said that. Amy said this. And I’m like, well, why is she telling you to do that? You know, you need to call it out. And, you know, rebuke it. And take ownership of your property. And, you know, if you’ve got somebody that’s already, I never said they’re scared to be in their house. But, you know, they’re already having a feeling, an uneasy feeling. And you start telling them to do that. And they don’t understand paranormal. They’re going to get that much more fearful of their home. And that’s what scares me about her. Because you have no idea what you’re telling people. (Right) And, you know, you guys have, you know, you’ve seen firsthand what she does. So, and, you know, looking at that case, I can too. Because she does that to every case, you know. I just, and there’s 100 people supposedly under her wing. Oh, that just, that really is scary. It really is.

Tony: Yeah. Yeah, and like you said, you wonder how much of that she put into, you wonder how much of that she put into that client’s head and made her think that. And I also wonder if this woman was paying people for readings over the phone and psychic advice over the phone. I wonder how much she paid Amy over the phone.

Jenny: I know. I didn’t think about that until just now. I bet I could get a hold of her and ask her.

Tony: You should. You should find out. Ask her if she ever paid Amy. And if so, how much? Because she claims all over her website that she charges absolutely no money for anything.

Jenny: Yeah, I will definitely. I’m going to ask her that. I will send her an email and, you know, definitely. Because that, I didn’t even think about that, Tony, until just now.

Tony: Yeah, that would be very good information to find out. So, and there was no, you know, she did that at that client’s house that we talked about earlier, you know, where she pretended to be scratched and made it look like there was some evil entity there.

Jenny: And there was nothing there. It was residual, it was a residual activity, if anything. But there was nothing that that woman had to worry about. And she went to her and pretty much scared that poor woman to death. Yeah.

[52:55] [Amy Morrison Rodriguez creates chaotic atmospheres and places herself in the center of it all]

Tony: So, if there is no drama, she likes to create the drama and be right in the middle of it. And the more dramatic it is, because the more dramatic it is, the more somebody needs her to be there. You know what I mean?

Jenny: The more they’ll need, yeah, that makes sense. That does. That makes complete sense. That makes complete sense. And people like that, you know, she’s creating, I could see her creating paranormal situations, so that she, you know, she could be the warrior that comes in and takes care of it.

Tony: Yeah, and then she could do some psychic readings on the side and charge those clients.

Jenny: Yeah, I’m definitely going to contact that client as soon as we end the show and ask her, because I’m very curious now as to how that came about.

Tony: Yeah.

Jenny: I really am. Yeah.

[53:47] [Amy Morrison Rodriguez lies publicly about how much experience she has in “the field of paranormal”]

Tony: And I’m not sure, she was in a newspaper article recently about ghost hunting in Maine, where she was going to, you know, preparing to go do a ghost hunt in a training session with some of our team members and members of the public. And I like how she’s always claiming me to have, you know, 10 years of experience with ghost hunting.

Jenny: How many?

Tony: At least 10 years. 10 years, over a decade. And right on her website, she says she’s a professional paranormal investigator who has been investigating for over a decade. Well, we actually have her, we have her application to become a Maine ghost hunter, and she didn’t have any experience. And that was in 2009. Wow. She didn’t know how to use her equipment. Every time she came on an investigation, Kat had to show her how to turn her video camera on and make sure it was running and keep it working.

Jenny: I’m looking at her membership application.

Tony: Yes.

[55:00] [Amy Morrison Rodriguez can’t pass a criminal background check; lies about it; requires team members to pass background check]

Jenny: And it asks, first of all, I ask, are you able to be bonded through an insurance company? Which, that strikes me as odd. Do you have any type of criminal background? Please explain. Is she trying to get more of a ring going then. How could you ask me about a criminal background when you lie about your own? Y’know?

Tony: Well, if somebody’s asking you, right, if somebody’s telling you, you need to pass a criminal background check, and if you have any criminal history, you need to tell me about it, you need to be able to be bonded, are you going to question their ability to do that? Or are you just going to naturally think, well, they’re asking me to do this, so they must be able to do that too, right?

Jenny: Exactly. Yeah. And what scares me is, if you are, you know, is she collecting money from people saying that they’re bonded through an insurance company?

Tony: Yeah, I have no idea.

Jenny: Are people actually giving her the social security numbers? You know, to run an accurate criminal background check, you have to have more than just a name and address.

Tony: Yes, you do. So, would I want to trust somebody that I, which people don’t, obviously aren’t aware, but, I mean, people are going to be giving her, let’s hypothetically say that she really does have 100 members, you know, she’s suckered that many people into being part of this overall branch of whatever. Then, 100 social security numbers, 100 people possibly paying her a premium, thinking that they’re actually being bonded through an insurance company? I mean, my team, we have an insurance policy that covers the team, but we’ve never bonded anybody.

Tony: Right.

Jenny: And the way I understand that is, is that you actually are bonded, like you pay a bonding fee.

Tony: Exactly. Yeah, she doesn’t know what bonding means. She’s using it because it makes her sound professional, makes her sound like she’s legitimate, makes her sound like it’s okay for her to come into people’s establishments, but she has no idea what bonding really means. If she did, she wouldn’t pay it.

Jenny: So, you don’t think she’s trying to actually get people, you know, collect money from them for that? It makes me wonder.

Tony: Oh, I’m sure she’s saying that. Like I said, she’s saying she has insurance, she’s saying they’re bonded, she’s saying she’s doing criminal background checks. Whether she’s doing all that or not, I don’t know. But to say that she’s bonded, she could be saying that and then going to her team members and saying, well, you know, we have to pay for insurance and bonding, so I need you all to pay me $50 a month so you can be members.

Jenny: Exactly, so that you can be bonded and we can get into more places that way.

Tony: Exactly.

Jenny: That is so scary. So, if she had 100 people doing that, that’s a lot of money. Yeah. So, I mean, I don’t know that she’s doing that.

Jenny: I mean, theoretically, based on some of her past behaviors, it’s very possible that she could be doing that.

Jenny: Yeah, I mean, it puts up red flags because it makes you wonder, you know, the things like that. I mean, we have had a team, you know, we’ve been established for quite some time and I don’t have that on our application. Can you be bonded? I do, you know, we don’t ask if you’re willing to run a background check. We just do it now and we let them know that we’re doing it.

Tony: Yeah, and like you said, you know, you have to have a lot more information than just a person’s name and their current address to do a background check, you know, a thorough background check. We don’t want to be responsible for having access to people’s personal identifying information, such as their driver’s license number, their date of birth, their Social Security number, their parent’s maiden name. So we made this decision a short time ago when we started to add more members to our team that if you’re going to be part of being ghost hunters, you need to march your little butt down to the police department and let them put your thumb and index finger on an ink pad and have them send us information about you.

Jenny: Yeah, that’s what we actually added. We haven’t added any more team members in a while, but that’s actually what we… People, you can run your own background check. You know, they can run their own. You know, they can run their own and give it to you because when you start messing with people’s social security numbers and driver’s license, I mean, but if she’s doing it, then she’s got access to people’s stuff. And if you’re joining a team, then the thing’s legitimate. You’re not going to have a bit of hesitation to give that to the team founder. That’s scary. That is.


Tony: It is scary.

Jenny: That’s very scary. Yeah. It is very scary.

Tony: Yeah. Yeah.

Jenny: I just, you know, I hope that a lot of people don’t get, you know, burned by her. I’m sure there has been more and I’m sure there’s going to be more, but I hope that it’s, hopefully people start wising up to her a lot sooner.

Tony: Yeah.

Jenny: You know.

Tony: Now, yeah. No, absolutely. I agree. I hope that people do start to realize. So, and that’s a good point. Okay. So let’s talk about that a little bit. So here’s this person who’s very charismatic. She’s very likable. She’s very much the victim whenever anything happens. You know, everything, everybody’s out to get her and she’s like, that’s her life and that’s why she has these problems. When, when that information a few years ago started to come to light about what she’s done and the potential for her to do these things again, did you believe any of that when you saw that?

Jenny: Well, I mean, I was very shocked when I saw it at first. I think for me, and I was still upset with Kat, and so that kind of clouded my judgment. Not that that’s saying it’s anybody’s fault, but my own. And when I looked at it, I remember, I remember distinctly telling, you know, David, my husband, I was like, oh my God, look, look at this, look at all this information. You know, and it was very, essentially it was very difficult to go through. There was so much. And I did believe it. I did, and that’s, that’s why I asked her. I had confronted her with it. I said, you know, we all make mistakes. And if that’s the case, then you just need to own up to it and move on, but don’t continue to lie about it. And, you know, I’m not sure if you guys have gotten more information since then. And I did. You know, I still gave her the benefit of the doubt. I looked at it as, you know, it’s very easy to just put somebody’s name in a, you know, a search like that, you know, a background search and come up with, you know, if you don’t have everything. And I wasn’t, I didn’t know exactly how much information you guys had to do a background search on her. But my thing was, you know, it’s very easy to, you know, put somebody’s name in and get a bunch of different names come up. Because if I was to do that with my name, which I have, it would look like I was a criminal all over the country because there are, you know, and I have ran into that. And I had to prove that I was this Jennifer Stewart, not another Jennifer Stewart.

Tony: (laughs)

Jenny: So it was. It was. At first I was looking at it like, you know, because I just don’t see, you know, this and that. But then, you know, more things started, you know, happening with her. And it wasn’t so much even her criminal background that kind of eluded me that made me really not want anything to do with her. It was her behavior.

Tony: Right

Jenny: And the fact that I knew she was lying about other things. You know, creating a page to be her dad and going as far as to go into a chat room and then, you know, create a dot com to make me think I was getting emails from her father. You know, I was like, this girl’s crazy. I don’t want anything to do with her. And but when I heard the victim actually come forward and speak on your show, I was shaken. I was literally my body was shaking. I was so upset over that because it was sad. That woman trusted her

Tony: She did

Jenny: and brought her into her home and look what she did to her.

Toby: I’m going to pause for just a second.

Jenny: Okay.

[01:03:13] [Tony reads certified criminal complaint documentation and police reports belonging to Amy Morrison Rodriguez]

Tony: And I’m going to read you. Now what I’m going to read, I’m going to read this directly from certified court documents from the state of Pennsylvania.

Jenny: Okay.

Tony: Okay. These are criminal complaints as filed with the courts. And these are the criminal complaints and police reports that led to the arrest and conviction and imprisonment of Amy Morrison which is her maiden name. Okay.

Jenny: Okay.

[01:03:50] [First criminal complaint docket – Amy Morrison Rodriguez – Arrest warrant affidavit] [6 Bullet Points]

Tony: Okay. So I’m going to pause for just a second. I’m going to start reading. All right. So here’s the first one. The very first and earliest arrest warrant affidavit and docket number. It says probable cause belief is based on the following facts and circumstances. There are six bullet points here.

January 28, 1997, Carol Oberholzer, staffers of Kissel Hill Collections reported the following to East Hemphill Township Police that on November 23, 1996, a check was passed without sufficient funds for the amount of $85.06. The check number was 1258. Then on November 24, 1996, a check was passed without sufficient funds in the amount of $41.60, check number 1259. Both checks were drawn on York Federal account, sorry, bank account. And the account number is here. They were both authorized with signature of Amy Morrison. Amy Morrison was penned-in above the printed name on the account, Elizabeth Perlis.

Bullet point number two. Elizabeth Perlis told me, this is the person speaking, that she met actor, Morrison, in July 1996. Stated she added actor to her checking account in August 1996 for purpose of helping pay rent and bills. Stated the account was in bad shape and Morrison started bouncing checks. Stated she told Morrison numerous times not to write any more checks because there was no more money in the account. Stated she demanded of actor, referring to Amy Morrison, to remove her name from the account. Actor personally removed her name from the account on November 22, 1996.

Jenny: Wow.

Tony: She stated that she closed the account when she discovered actor had taken a checkbook with her that had check number 1250 to 1275. So she had a checkbook with 25 checks in it. Stated that after November 22, 1996, the actor had no authority to write checks.

Tony: Bullet point number three. Contacted Shay LaVeur(sp) at York Federal Bank Lancaster office. He advised he personally took actor’s name off the account on November 22, 1996.

[01:06:22] [Amy Morrison Rodriguez was caught trying to pass a bad check – faked pregnancy labor pains – fled being arrested]

Tony: Bullet point number four. Found that on December 8, 1996, actor, Amy Morrison, went to the SKH store in Mannsheim Township and tried using another check from this account but was not allowed to due to an alert put out by Oberholtzer about the checks. When questioned, actor stated she was pregnant, going into labor, and fled the store.

Tony: Bullet point number five. Through investigation, I found suspect is currently pregnant. This is January of 1997.

Tony: Bullet point number six, and the last bullet point on this docket. Investigation shows actor knew the checks were bad when she used them and would not have had authorization to use them. So this is a signed police report, part of an official court document, an arrest warrant affidavit that led to the arrest and conviction of Amy Morrison for fraud.

[01:07:23] [Another criminal complaint docket] [Another arrest warrant affidavit]

Tony: That’s one docket. The next docket has four bullet points, and this is the same detective writing out this police report. This is another arrest warrant affidavit.

[01:07:41] [Amy Morrison Rodriguez identified as the perpetrator via police photo lineup]

Tony: This is on February 21 of 1997. Susan Sostall, employee of Weiss Markets, 2141 Lincoln Plaza, East Hempfield Township, reported the following to the East Hempfield Township Police Department, that on November 30, 1996, York Federal Bank check number 1265 was presented in the amount of $211.25 to purchase merchandise. Obviously, this check came back as Mark’s thought payment. The name was Elizabeth Perlis on the check, but it was Amy who was signing it. I’m not going to read all the boring details here, but investigations revealed that the actor wrote several checks in East Hempfield Township in which she was identified as the actor writing them by photo lineup. So they put her in a lineup

Jenny: Wow

Tony: so they could identify her as the person writing these checks. And, uh, it goes on and on. So that’s just two of the police reports. I have many more, but I don’t want to bore our listeners.

Jenny: So have you identified how many victims so far?

Tony: Well, all of these cases that we found in Pennsylvania have to deal with her stealing of those checks from Elizabeth Perlis.

Jenny: And she ended up getting thousands of dollars from her, didn’t she?

Tony: Yes, she did.

Jenny: What struck me the hardest was when she was talking and said that she ended up losing her home and everything. That broke my heart.

Tony: Yeah, she added Amy to help her. I mean, she let Amy move in, expected they were going to share bills and expenses, and instead of helping this woman, instead of Amy helping this woman, Elizabeth Perlis paid her rent. She not only didn’t help her do that, she didn’t contribute, but she stole Elizabeth Perlis’ money.

Jenny: And that poor woman ended up homeless.

Tony: Right. To the point where the rent couldn’t be paid, the bills couldn’t be paid, so she left. She didn’t have any choice. What was she going to do? And you heard in the show where Amy’s boyfriend at the time threatened her.

Jenny: mhm, yeah

Tony: And the whole time, Amy was claiming that she was running from the abuse of an ex-spouse.

Jenny: Yeah, she talks a lot about abuse. It’s like in every relationship, there’s been abuse, to the point that you go, well, why do you keep going back to the same kind of situation? But it makes you wonder, between then and now, has she gotten so good at it that people don’t report it? She reminds me of the people that do those scams, those telephone scams with the older people. You know, you want to pay for it. She reminds me of the scam artist, you know, that does the telephone scams. You know, she sees that down in Florida.

Tony: Yeah. So she claimed abuse, got this woman to feel bad for her. When she contacted you, she claimed the same thing you said.

Jenny: Mhm. She, you know, the way Amy had presented, you know, she had made it out like when we did confront her with, you know, first it was, you know, some of that wasn’t her, she never lived in Pennsylvania. You know, if I remember correctly, I honestly think that she said at one point that she had written some bad checks before, but not in Pennsylvania. And I remember her saying, you know, I think everybody’s done that in their past, you know, once or twice in their past, but I took care of them. You know, I’ve never been arrested. You know, but clearly the lady that you had on the show actually identified her. You gave her a URL. She went and saw the picture and said it was her. I mean, you know, how many more times could she escape it? In fact, it’s a big thing. I mean, you’re going into people’s houses under the pretense that you’re a paranormal team. I would be, you know, when I’ve been into people’s homes, they, you know, they are trusting you because it’s taken a lot for them to even call you to begin with. So they don’t hide their medications or their checkbooks and things like that or, you know, for your name of their house. That’s very scary. You know, I wonder if she’s done this to somebody under that same pretense. You know, I’m here to investigate your house and while you’re not looking, I’m going to steal a few checks out of your checkbook.

Tony: Yeah.

Jenny: That’s very scary. That is. That’s very scary because not only does it put, you know, homeowners at risk, but, you know, the steps that we’ve made in this field could be, you know, looked upon legitimately as an organization. I mean, she’s done harm to all the other investigators as well.

Tony: Yeah.

Jenny: She’s one of those people that once it gets out there in the open of what she is, you know, it’s going to give the entire community a bad name.

Tony: Exactly. Exactly.

Jenny: And people just don’t listen to it, though, do they? A lot of people look at it as, oh, you’re starting drama. Why are you picking on her? And, you know, I’ll be the first person to admit, I did too at first, you know, until I started seeing the psychological pattern with her of being, you know, a non-she doesn’t seem like she’s there, you know. She tells lies all the time. We caught her, you know, you catch her in lies and you start to realize there’s something not right. And then, you know, to really hear that story of the victim just sent it home for me that much more of what she’s capable of doing. And she can go to sleep at night and not worry about it.

Tony: Right.

Jenny: Yep, exactly. Did the woman ever get restitution, the victim?

Tony: You know, there’s absolutely nothing in these court documents about restitution to the victim. Nothing.

Jenny: That’s sad. That is. That’s very sad. I don’t know how she’s…

[01:14:00] [Amy Morrison Rodriguez stole a brooch from Elizabeth Perlis]

Tony: When I contacted that woman, when I found out that woman’s name and I contacted her, one of the things, one of her most important questions she asked me, and she talked about it on the show, was the fact that she lost her grandmother’s brooch, a family heirloom that was taken from her during this ordeal by Amy and was never returned to her. She lost it. Gone.

Jenny: And seeing that had no value to me other than the monetary value that she could get for it.

Tony: Right.

Jenny: She has no feelings. It’s like she’s narcissistic as well, you know. It’s about Amy. It’s all about Amy.

Tony: Yes. Very good point.

Jenny: And that’s very scary. I just… That’s… And it’s not been that long ago. It’s not like it’s been… She wasn’t in her teen years and, you know, stole a piece of candy from the grocery store and got caught. I mean, she got this woman to lose her home, and now she’s going into other people’s homes. That is scary. It is. It’s very scary. People need to listen. They need… And I’m going to start promoting these because people need to be aware of what she’s doing because she’s got 4,999 friends on her Facebook page. (Laughs) There’s 4,999 people that she can scam, in my opinion.

Tony: Yep.

Jenny: And that’s scary.

Tony Yep. Did you listen to Bob’s show?

Jenny: No. I listened to that one, and that one, just listening to that victim was… That just… Like I said, I was shaken by the time I was finished listening to that.

Tony: Yes. I mean, there’s a… Here’s a real live victim of Amy speaking out about how she was victimized, how she was abused by Amy. I mean, that’s… That right there should be an eye-opener for people. Yes. It really should. And, you know, we have our own radio network now, so, you know, I may have to make sure we do a show about this too, you know, just, if anything, to open the eyes of the people. It’s sad, Tony, because she’s running around acting like she’s a paranormal investigator.

Tony: Right.

Jenny: It’s sad. What better way for a criminal to get inside somebody’s house without breaking into it?

Tony: Exactly.

Jenny: I mean, that is… You know, we have a… Go ahead. No, I was going to say that just blows me away, because it’s all… It’s really sinking in now. It just… The more I think about it, it’s… I wonder if she’s… It just makes you wonder what she’s done already.

Tony: Yes. Yes. It’s amazing. And she plays on people’s heartstrings. She knows exactly what she does is she tries to find something that she can relate to with a person so they have an instant connection because, you know, either they’re related or they had a similar experience or, you know, whatever. That’s how she gets in. That’s how she gets under your skin. She makes you think you have a connection and she does it immediately.

Jenny: Yes. That’s exactly. She… It’s… And everybody’s picking on her. Everybody… Why are people, you know… And the reason that you guys turned on her is because her father didn’t want to, you know, invest in any kind of productions or anything with you all.

Tony: Is that what she said?

[01:17:30] [Amy Morrison Rodriguez altered her last name on social media to be unrecognizable to those ‘not in the know’]

Jenny: Yes. That’s why you guys turned on her. (Laughs) Yes. And I was… I just… It’s just… Yes. I have to go through and find all of… Because I don’t remember… Because she doesn’t use that last name. She doesn’t… Her last name is not even on her Facebook page anymore. I don’t know if you knew that or not.

[01:17:56] [Reference to the many last names Amy Morrison Rodriguez uses]

Tony: Well, you’ve got to ask which last name.

Jenny: Well, it’s true. I didn’t think about that. The one that she used when she was… Because now she uses just the ‘Aimee’ New England Ghost founder. So I don’t remember. Oh, and she’s got 5,000 friends now. She must have just added somebody.

Tony: Probably 2,500 of them are identities that she created herself. (Laughs). Now, when we launched that website, did you have… So you had already had some interactions with Amy. So Amy told you that we got rid of her or asked her to leave because her father wouldn’t support any – something to do with production?

Jenny: Yes. Well, you guys were trying to steal a documentary from me. This is the story. You guys were trying to steal a documentary from me, and when it was explained to her father what it was about, he refused to do it, and you got mad.(laugh) And that’s why you turned on her. Yeah. A documentary that doesn’t even exist. You’re right.

Tony: Yeah, exactly. A documentary that was not a documentary.

Jenny: Exactly.

Tony: So did she say that before or after we launched that website?

Jenny: I’m trying to remember. It was after, actually. You guys were trying to ruin her credibility because that was your way of retaliation. Oh, and she went as far as to tell us that she had filed restraining orders against you guys and that you all were harassing her to the point that you were stalking her and that you all were in trouble with the police department there because of the harassment. Yeah. Do you remember what was her last name she was using? Do you remember?

Tony: Her married last name is Rodriguez.

Jenny: What was it?

Tony: Rodriguez

Jenny: That’s right.

Tony: And that is her real name. That’s her married name.

Jenny: Oh, is it?

Tony: Yeah.

Jenny: Ah, I’m trying to see if I can find some of the – I’ll go through and see if I can find some. I know, because I keep all of those. And if I find them, I’ll send them to you, all the e-mails and stuff.

[01:20:29] [Amy Morrison Rodriguez makes empty legal threats, publicly, against her victims when they speak out about her]
Tony: Okay, that would be great, actually. Now, apart from her talking about us being in trouble, I mean, she’s always claiming that whoever is threatening her or whoever is saying anything negative about her is committing criminal acts and in trouble with the police, and she’s talking to the police, and the police are going to go arrest them and all this crap. Other than that typical crap that she usually spits out, did she say anything else negative about us? Did she threaten us in any way?

Jenny: As far as, and I knew that she was lying about the investigating part, that you guys would go and get, like you’d go to a case, but you would never review the stuff that other people would have to do it for you. And I knew that was a lie, because I know how meticulous Kat is when it comes to reviewing stuff. I knew that that was a lie. And you have to understand, all of this was in the course of maybe a week and a half after the fallout with you guys and you guys putting the stuff out there, because she would call a lot. I mean, it was a constant thing with her. Right.

Tony: Yeah, so she always denied all of that criminal activity before, didn’t she?

Jenny: Oh yeah. Oh, Oh, yes. She – She would never, she never would admit to doing anything criminal or anything.

[01:21:55] [Amy Morrison Rodriguez told Jenny Stewart she (Amy) would ‘destroy Maine Ghost Hunters’]

Tony: Yeah. She, well, Kat seems to remember a phone call that you made to her saying that she had told you she was going to destroy Maine Ghost Hunters.

Jenny: She did say that. She did say that.

Tony: She did?

Jenny: Yes, she did. She did say that, you know, that she would, she did say that. I do remember her, because I told her, I said, I think that you’re being, you know, just a little overzealous there. You need to calm down. And I kept trying to get her to talk to you guys. And she said, you don’t understand. There’s no talking to them. And that’s when she contacted those, the two other people that also have Maine, that’s when she contacted them, (yeah) because it wasn’t long after that that, yeah, that I was getting a phone call from them.

Tony: Yeah. Yeah.

Jenny: And they said that she was crazy.

Tony: Yeah. And, you know, it’s funny. Sorry, I interrupted you again there. It’s funny that you say that. And it’s good to hear that they contacted you. It’s good to know that they actually finally realized the truth about her. Because as soon as we cut ties with her, she used to say a lot of negative things about them. She used to say, you know, they know I’m a psychic, and they wanted me to help train them and make them better psychics. And they kept harassing me, and they kept bothering me, and they kept calling me, and all these things.

Jenny: Amy said that?

Tony: Amy said that about them, yeah.

Jenny: Oh, my god.

[01:23:24] [Tony sent a warning to fellow Maine team about Amy – Amy manipulated them to respond with public attack of MGH they later regretted]

Tony: Yeah. So I actually sent them a letter. I sent them an e-mail and said, hey, you know, I see you guys have made friends with this person, and, you know, I think you should probably give me a call, because, you know, this is not the person you really want. You know, we know we’ve had our differences. I wrote them an e-mail out of concern for them, saying you really need to know something about this person before you get mixed up with them, because you are going to get in trouble. I actually called them and left them a voicemail. And at first, Amy – y’know Amy did the same thing with them that she did with you and did with everybody else. And they actually posted a blog post about how awful we were for putting this information out there, and how terrible we were, and how we were harassing Amy, and we were stalking Amy, and all this crap, and all the negative things that Amy had said about them. She told them that we had been saying those things. So it’s good to know that in the end, they finally got the picture and understood who she really was.

Jenny: Yeah. They did, because we had a very lengthy conversation about her. And because we compared notes, finally, you know, well, this is what she told me about you all, and she’s like, well, this is what she’s telling me about them. And, you know, and like I told them, we put our differences, even, you know, whether we had differences with you or with her, we put them aside and we really logically looked at it. And, you know, I told her, I said, you’ve got to stop and look at it from all angles. And they said, well, you know, she’s crazy. Because some of the stuff that she was telling them and emailing them, it just was so far out there. And I can’t remember, I don’t even remember what all it was, but I remember called me and was like, you’ve got to, you know, be very careful with her. She’s crazy. She’s not right upstairs.

Tony: Yeah. That’s good. I’m glad to hear that.

Jenny: Yeah. No, they got really, they got really, and it did take us, it did not take very long. It really didn’t. From the time that, you know, the whole fictitious father picture came out, and we all, you know, kind of got onto that, to when you guys posted everything to, I think it was probably no more than maybe a week to a week and a half afterwards, that everybody was kind of like going, yeah, no, there’s something not right here. Yeah, because she was telling all kinds of stuff.

Tony: Yeah. No, I’m sure she was, and that’s what she does. She’s the victim, and everybody else has to have done something way worse to her than she could have ever done to distract you from what the reality is.

[01:26:02] [Amy Morrison Rodriguez created and forwarded fake emails to manipulate Jenny Stewart]

Jenny: I just remembered. Oh, my God, and I got to find these. She was sending me e-mails with me not asking her to, and I finally had to tell her to stop. She was sending me e-mails, forwarding me e-mails that were apparently between her and a Kat in reference to me, and, you know, I finally told her. I said, you know, I really don’t want to see any more of this because you can actually, you know, my sister-in-law Jenny can actually tell people this. You can take a screenshot of something, and you can, if you know enough code, you can change what’s on there. Jenny actually did it once.

Tony: Absolutely. Absolutely.

Jenny: And I just told her because she was causing problems between me and my sister-in-law with those e-mails, and I just finally told her, I said, look, please don’t send me any more of this. You know, somebody else I had a falling out with, she had done the same thing. She was forwarding things, and I was thinking, you know, if you’re my friend, then why is it taking a falling out with the other person for you to actually submit this stuff to me? You know, if you’re truly a friend, why didn’t you tell me this before? (Laughing) And, you know, I just finally told Amy, but it was supposed to be, like, e-mails that her and Kat had back and forth, and, you know, I just, and things that Kat had forwarded to her from other people in regards to me, and I just, towards the end, I didn’t want to hear any more of it. Even if it was true, I didn’t care. You know, I was at that point, I’m like, coming from her, I got to the point, how could you trust anything she said? But I’ll have to find those, and if I do, I will definitely forward those to you guys.

Tony: Yeah, those will be interesting to see. So now through all of this, right, I mean, we put out a website, and we, you know, the premise of that website was, hey, community, here is somebody that’s in and amongst you, and you really should, you know.


Tony: You know, educate yourself about so you do not get taken advantage of. And did we ever make any threats of any kind about Amy or her family or anything negative

Jenny: No.

Tony: other than putting that information out there, which is public knowledge?

Jenny: That’s the only thing that you have to put out there. That’s I never thought, I’ve never heard any threats from you all. I never saw any threats written or stated otherwise. It was a very well put together website. I mean, you guys did a very professional job of it. I think what confused me, and now you cleared that up tonight, was the whole check writing thing because originally it looked like she wrote back checks. That was it. But I couldn’t understand, you know, it was very confusing. But now you’ve explained, you know, I’ve heard that you’ve read to me and hearing the victim’s statement, that actually itself, it all made sense then. But no, everything was put out there. I mean, you didn’t disclose her social security number. You didn’t disclose anything like that.

Tony: Right. And we didn’t, you know, we didn’t target her site.

Tony: We didn’t target her family. We didn’t target her group, her organization in any way.

Jenny: No, you did not. You were just making the public aware that she did have a very lengthy past.

Tony: And that she was, you know, communicating some very delusional ideas about herself and delusions of grandeur about her lifestyle and things like that.

Jenny: Yes. Yes. And boy, did she. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:29:36] [Amy Morrison Rodriguez perpetrates offenses onto victims and then tells others her victims perpetrated those actions onto her]

Tony: Yeah, it’s interesting that you remember those, you know, those vacation stuff in the yacht and things like that. So what she did, and this is what she does, is everything that she’s said to you about us are things that she, in our opinion, in our observations, what she does is she takes what she does, all the negativity that she spreads, and she puts that out as if other people are doing that to her.

Jenny: Exactly. That’s exactly what she does. She twists it. She’ll take any situation and twist it to where it suits her and makes her look like she’s being victimized. That’s exactly what she does.

Tony: Right. So she told you that she was going to destroy us, and we never said that. We never said that to you, but that’s what she said we said to her, to everybody about her.

[01:30:29] [Amy Morrison Rodriguez connects herself, via social media, to her target victims friends and family – infiltration tactic]

Jenny: Yes. Exactly. And that you all were, you know, pretty much stalking her, harassing her. At one point, there was supposed to have been a restraining order served, and she kept telling us she had to go to court because you had violated the restraining order. And, you know, when we started really questioning her on that, that’s when I think Julie and Robin really got suspicious of her, and nobody could find any, you know, docket or anything like that, which is public record. Things like that are public record. And that’s when I think they really were like, she’s crazy. Stay away from her. So that’s when everybody started kind of pulling away from her. But she would go on, she would get on your Facebook page. She would, she would get, she’s one of those, like, you know, friendly- . She’ll get on your Facebook page, and she’ll, if she can see your friends list, she’ll add every friend you have, especially if you’re in the paranormal field.

Tony: Oh yeah. Yes. That’s exactly what she does. And that way she can talk about you behind your back.

Jenny: : Exactly. Yes. And make herself look like she’s a better paranormal investigator than anybody else.

Tony: Yes. Yes. Yes. So just to set the record straight, there were, we both had, we had mutual protection from harassment orders against each other, which they’re so easy to get. You just walk down to a court and sign your name to a document and say, hey, this person’s harassing me. So they give you a temporary order, and then you have to go to court. So that did happen on both sides. We had one against her. She had one against us. And basically what it was, was to protect us, because Kathy was afraid she was going to come to the house, and God only knows what she was going to do, because you’ve seen how she acts. You’ve seen how vicious she can get. So there were never any violations of that. And we never even had a final hearing, because we walked into court with some other people that she had lied to in person, and she decided to give up.

Jenny: Oh, wow.

Tony: Yes. So anyway, so I didn’t.

Jenny: To have her tell it, you violated a restraining order. And yeah, like I said, that’s when it really started, you know, everybody started going, oh, crazy.

[01:32:40] [Jenny Stewart sends personal warnings of concern to audience and paranormal field about Amy Morrison Rodriguez]

Tony: Yeah. But anyway, where I will, I’ll dig that paperwork out, because I do have a docket number, and anybody who’s interested can go to the Benefit Courthouse, and they can see it for themselves. They can see all the information. They can see all the information that was available on the website, because Amy printed it all off and put it in the docket. So it’s there. So anybody that is curious, anybody that’s listening, feel free, take a walk down there, take a ride down there, and we can make those docket numbers available, so you can check it out for yourself. Is there anything that you want to say as words of warning or words of advice for people who may be listening to this, and think, well, you know, I hear one side, I can’t hear the other side, anything you want to say to them?

Jenny: Just be really careful. When there’s proof in black and white and there’s more than one person actually telling you that this person is not who they claim to be, you have to put some stock into it. One of the things that I have taken pride in myself, and I know that you guys have as well, Tony, is the credibility that we’ve established in the field. And we’re credible, you know, established investigators that are saying, stay away from this girl because she has bad news, she’s crazy, and she is very, very convincing, but she’s a fraud.

Tony: And anything specifically to her team members that she has right now or her branches that she has going? Run as fast as you can and find a credible team because you’re only going to get hurt, especially on her team, because I would be very scared of having someone as a leader with a criminal background and such a big scam artist the way she is.

Tony: I know, it’s a shame to see that there are people like this out there, you know. And just, have you heard, there’s a website called, there’s a Facebook page called Stop Paranormal Bullying, have you seen that or heard of that?

Jenny: No.

[01:34:39] [The challenges of educating the paranormal field about fraud, scammers, and con artists in its matrix]

Tony: No? It’s, the person who runs the page won’t allow his identity to be known, so he’s hiding himself, right? So he’s probably someone who created some fake evidence or did some defrauding of his own, and he got called out on it, so now he’s angry at the world and angry at everybody else in paranormal and put this page together. Well, we started talking about, you know, Amy and the situation and warning people. And he started flaming us for doing that. And one of the things he said was, you know, if there’s really a problem, unless this person has an open warrant for their arrest, Maine Ghost Hunters should just shut up and ignore it and it’s not their problem. (Wow) We posted back a link, we posted back a link to a court in Ohio, Avon Lake, Ohio, to a court case where there is an active open warrant for the arrest of the crime she committed, and when we put that up, he took it down.

Jenny: Really?

Tony: Yeah, so there are people out there who just will not listen. Put the black and white in their face, and they will not listen. So, you know, we can only do what we can do. We’re trying to protect the community, and just, that’s our purpose. So she has an open warrant.

Jenny: I’m over there now, and it’s, yeah, this looks like a, I’m sorry, but kind of like a joke. Avon, Avon, go ahead. No, I just, it’s very funny that, you know, I just don’t get why people, they say, you know, stop the bullying, but yet they don’t want to listen to, you know, isn’t somebody scamming somebody? Isn’t that bullying? Aren’t you being lied to? And the things that she did, I mean, to me, I would consider that bullying.

[01:37:28] [Tony declares – MGH ‘Fraud in Paranormal’ podcasts exist to warn the field of paranormal about Amy Morrison Rodriguez]

Tony: Yes. Yeah. So, you know, the only reason I bring up that page is because, like I said, we, here we are trying to build community awareness and, you know, educate the public on the threat in the community. And this person who has this page decides that that’s bullying, that we’re picking on somebody. And, you know, there’s a clear difference between, you know, paranormal drama and serious messages of concern. We are concerned for the community. We are concerned for the people that she is having associated with her in her organization. And we are concerned for the clients whose homes and businesses she’s going into.

Jenny: And that’s where people should be, you know, concerned because, you know, if she’s got that lengthy, like I said, the criminal background that she has, you know, wasn’t it just, it wasn’t too long ago that, you know, the paranormal field community had this big uprising about, you know, doing background checks because there was pedophiles that were actually a part of teams and they were going in and, you know, were around the homeowner’s children. So why is there not an uproar within the community about thieves, about people that are stealing, you know, the people that have past records of theft and scamming? I mean, I would be concerned about that because I guarantee there’s more of those than there are pedophiles that are part of teams.

Tony: Yeah.

Jenny: I just, she needs to be, she needs to be really looked at, you know, as somebody that’s a fraud and a danger to any homeowner that she comes across and any team, any person on a team, you know.

[01:39:14] [Amy Morrison Rodriguez’s apparent narcopathic-type tendencies are apparent, oftentimes documented, lifelong patterns]

Tony: Yeah. So, again, we just want to, and we, you know, we haven’t said this, I haven’t said this in this show yet, but we say it in every other show. It’s not just the fact that she committed some crimes a long time ago and learned her lesson because that’s not the case here. She committed crimes and she exhibits the same behaviors that she exhibited back then of fraud and lying and pretending to be as though she’s not. So, I, Jen, if you would, I’d like you to kind of, you know, just reiterate, you know, the fake identities and the many fake personas that Amy portrays and puts out there, the fake, you know, just the fakeness of everything that she does, that she defrauds people with.

Jenny: Well, that’s something that if you’re a paranormal investigator or just a person listening to this, you need to really think about one of the things that we strive for is credibility. And so, that’s pretty much all you have is your credibility. How can you have credibility if you are creating numerous, not one, not two, but numerous fake profiles and interacting with them as if they’re somebody else and, you know, creating and conjuring up all these fantasy stories and then when you’re caught, all of a sudden you turn around on everybody else as people are attacking you. So, that’s something that people should really think about, you know, all of the pages that she has created in itself. I mean, that was just as recent as last year. So, she hasn’t learned her lesson. It has nothing to do with that. She’s no different today than she was, you know, 10, 11 years ago, except she may be a little bit more cautious about how she does her, you know, her business, so to speak.

Tony: Yeah. So, she’s crafty to the point where she doesn’t learn. She just learns to be better at what she’s doing.

Jenny: Exactly. Yeah. That’s what you’re trying to say.

Tony: Yeah. And if you could just, you know, kind of reiterate the name, you know, the name of at least one of those fake IDs of her father.

Jenny: Oh, Douglas McLeod. If you see that name, run, because it’s her.

Tony: Yeah. …. ….. …. ….. All right. Well, I really appreciate you taking the time to be on the show tonight

Jen. And I know that, you know, you, as a respected member of the paranormal community, have the same concerns that we do. We want to make sure that the community is safe, that our, you know, our home communities are safe, and that people are not taken advantage of in this way. And, you know, just keeping the paranormal community straight. I appreciate you guys spreading the word.

Tony: Alright, well very good Jen. Definitely stay in touch … … … …

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